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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 7:27pmSanction this postReply
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Hahahahahahahaha! You should have posted this one as a joke, Luther. Hilarious.

Post 1

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 6:39amSanction this postReply
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It was too short for a formal joke posting but just right as a humorous quote.

Post 2

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 6:45amSanction this postReply
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if only....

there are many many men who will find this funny (as I did), for reasons we'll never tell :)

Post 3

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 7:03amSanction this postReply
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I, on the other hand, fail to find any point in it. But, Luke, you always dig up such things, and that makes me wonder... 


Post 4

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 9:57amSanction this postReply
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Hong, I just had a private exchange of SOLO mail about this topic with another SOLO man.

To summarize, I think the Western fairy tales about knights in shining armor rescuing damsels in distress set up many false expectations that serve no purpose in our post-industrial era.  Too many women have a "Lillian Rearden" mentality in which they expect their husbands to "figure out" what will make them happy without they themselves doing the hard inner work required to understand themselves, what makes them happy and whether anyone besides themselves can augment that happiness.

The point of the joke, for those who failed to grasp it, is that our culture still clings to an old paradigm of men working to supply the basics of food, clothing and shelter while the women are free to pursue other interests -- which may or may not include children, a career, etc.  If a person wants to stay home and do a good job of full time parenting, fine.  Conversely, to live as a moocher while the marriage partner does all the work amounts to parasitism.  But for some reason, people often still find it acceptable, especially in this fashion:

"But he's getting me!"
"But I give him sex and he can't get that anywhere else!"
"But he's supposed to support me!  I'm his wife!"
 
... and so forth.

Hence, Carrington's comment about his fiance having the mindset of a "hooker" resonates with many men.

Those women in SOLO who have had the misfortune of involvement with "no-good mooching tomcats" can testify that this pendulum can swing the other way as well.  Regardless of your gender or orientation, the truth remains that marriage and family offer great venues to transfer life energy in the form of money from the productive to the unproductive.  Objectivism offers a blast of fresh air to clear these smokescreens and to expose the moochers for what they are, "family" or not.

(Edited by Luther Setzer on 4/06, 11:02am)


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Post 5

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 10:38amSanction this postReply
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ahem... Luke.. I wasn't able to follow all that...

Could you do it in Power Point maybe?

Michael


Post 6

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 10:50amSanction this postReply
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MSK had the audacity to ask:
Could you do it in Power Point maybe?
Dooooooon't tempt me!  I would form PowerPoint Addicts Anonymous but then I would need PowerPoint to illustrate the "Twelve Steps"!


Post 7

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 10:55amSanction this postReply
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I think he is telling you to buy me a house with a white picket fence after you make an honest woman out of me. 
No need to do that, I'm fine in my little townhouse without a fence.  A kitchen upgrade would be nice though.

My name is Kathy and I'm a PowerPoint addict.

(Edited by katdaddy on 4/06, 10:56am)


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Post 8

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 11:47amSanction this postReply
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Luke,
Thanks for explaining a typical male mind set. I've seen too many male paper tigers in my life, and this has become too touchy a topic for me to make any comments on.

(Edited by Hong Zhang on 4/06, 11:47am)


Post 9

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 11:53amSanction this postReply
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Just one caution. Within (hetero) relationships, there are differences between the sexes.  I've found the books by John ("Mars and Venus") Gray helpful in this respect. Another extremely useful book is Intimate Connections by Dr. David Burns, who dissects the self-esteem issues that usually sabotage dating and budding relationships.

(Edited by Robert Bidinotto on 4/06, 11:55am)


Post 10

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 12:22pmSanction this postReply
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Robert generously allowed me to transcribe his thoughts on the John Gray books years ago to my Web site at

http://attitudeadjustment.tripod.com/Essays/Mars-Venus.htm

I like his closing comment:
I do highly recommend you read John Gray's books on "Mars and Venus" -- though with a large dose of salt.
These comments originated when asking why Objectivist Clubs tended to draw more men than women.

I listened to the audio version of Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus by John Gray as well as various other works by Barbara De Angelis and Ellen Kreidman.  I have noticed that the people who write these books either figuratively or literally have no testicles!  The straw to break my back came in Kreidman's book Light Her Fire when she said that women take food, clothing and shelter for granted, as material values to expect from a man.  I commented on my explosive aggravation with this prevailing attitude elsewhere already, but it bears repeating.  Aaaaarrrrggghhhhh!  Dr. Evil could not have devised a more fiendish plot.

(Edited by Luther Setzer on 4/06, 12:51pm)


Post 11

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 12:32pmSanction this postReply
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Luke, I'd totally forgotten that post.

Do you think it might make a provocative article as a reprint here?


Post 12

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 12:37pmSanction this postReply
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Robert, GMTA -- Great Minds Think Alike!  I had just considered writing you to ask if you would consider posting it as a formal SOLO article.  I recommend editing to smooth it from its current outline format, though.  This subject definitely needs a thorough examination and discussion here at SOLO.

Post 13

Thursday, April 7, 2005 - 1:24amSanction this postReply
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These comments originated when asking why Objectivist Clubs tended to draw more men than women.
Tangential observation: ARI-affiliated gatherings in Southern California - the few I've been to - are very close to 50-50.

Post 14

Thursday, April 7, 2005 - 5:24amSanction this postReply
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Adam noted:
ARI-affiliated gatherings in Southern California -- the few I've been to -- are very close to 50-50.
Were the women there because their husbands were there or because they had a genuine interest in Objectivism?


Post 15

Thursday, April 7, 2005 - 10:27amSanction this postReply
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Luke,

I didn't interview - much less interview a representative sample - but most of the women did not seem to be hanging around specific males.

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Post 16

Thursday, April 7, 2005 - 10:33amSanction this postReply
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Adam,

Well that proves they were married.

//;-)

Michael


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